Surrogates Q & A: How Close Are We? With Randall Alley and Dr. James Canton

Surrogates just recently came out on Blu-ray disc and DVD, and I recently had the opportunity to sit in on a virtual round table with Dr. James Canton, Futurist and Randall Alley, CEO of Biodesigns. Dr. James Canton is a member of the San Francisco think tank – The Institute for Global Futures, and Randall Alley’s Company Biodesigns is dedicated to the revolutionizing the prosthetic limbs market. I have to admit; I think Surrogates was actually a pretty good film and a really interesting premise to boot. I just think between Zombieland and the hype machine rolling behind Paranormal Activity at full speed it really didn’t stand a chance. Which is sad because it was decent sci-fi film and deserved better.

Dr. James Canton and Randall Alley are featured prominently on the DVD and Blu-ray special features for Surrogates; and it’s great to get some of their opinions on the technology we see in the film, how close it is to becoming a reality and man’s place in all of it.

Randall, can you tell us about your company Biodesigns, and how it came about?

Randall Alley: Biodesigns specializes in advanced upper limb and high-performance lower limb prosthetics. We are not a manufacturer but rather a clinical company that works with patients. However, we have partnered with manufacturers to develop prosthetic products and have several on the market today. How Biodesigns came about was through my work with a large prosthetic and orthotic company in the United States. I co founded and directed the world’s largest upper limb prosthetic program but became disenchanted due to the corporation’s financial targets, which often superseded clinical results in my opinion. I formed my own company so that I could work with individuals the way I wanted to: in small numbers, with my complete and total focus on maximizing their performance. I used my background in kinesiology and biomechanics to offer a more innovative approach to how we work with our patients/clients.

Dr. Canton, what is The Institute for Global Futures?

Dr. James Canton: The Institute for Global Futures is a San Francisco based think tank that conducts trends research and provides advice to companies and governments on future trends such as leading edge technologies.  See www.FutureGuru.com

Randall, can you tell us what the first prosthetic limbs were like and compare it to the most advanced of today? Will the knowledge of these help the people who truly build the first surrogate robot?

Randall Alley: The first prosthetic limbs were amazingly heavy and cumbersome. Some were even marvels of engineering in their day. This was in large part due to the materials available to the artisans of the day. What characterized them then and to a great extent even now was and is the lack of attention to biomechanics of the interface that attaches to the limb or body. So what we’ve seen up until recently are tremendous advances in components, but then we stick this advanced hardware on a primitive socket design and wonder why the individual rejects it, or doesn’t get what he or she expected out of the prosthesis.

A revolution has finally begun in this area of interface design which I am proud to say is currently led by Biodesigns and our patent-pending “High-Fidelity Interface.” I have dedicated my career to exploring the limits of what we can accomplish in this area and I feel I have finally reached a point where I can say a “sea-change” will occur. I think the engineers of tomorrow that are capable of creating surrogates will have a good laugh at what we’ve accomplished today, but hopefully there will be those nuggets of timeless information that only experience can pass along that these engineers will find useful.

Randall, you make what seem like the ‘pieces’ of a surrogate…if you had to build one today what would be the missing ‘piece’ that has not yet been invented to make an android or remote surrogate work?

Randall Alley: That’s right, I make pieces aimed at making a person feel whole again. I think the missing piece would be the system or technology that allows for real-time control of the millions of bits of code that would be necessary to remotely control a surrogate and to instantly respond to external influences around the surrogate. We just don’t have the capability to have real-time fluidic remote control of such complex machinery at great distances without tremendous lag.

James, what was the most accurate prediction in the film Surrogates about our near future and what was most off the mark?

Dr. James Canton: The most accurate prediction from the film was the reasons why the Surrogates were created in the first place–to heal, to help and protect humans. Also, the domination of smart technology that may manipulate humans, by offering a seductive and exploitive experience I think as well is an accurate prediction that I am concerned about. We could be undone by our creations or our obsession with our technology. As technology becomes smarter, more connected to everything, especially us, the chances of advanced tech waking up, achieving self-awareness and deciding it does not need or like humans is not a casual concern. The Singularity is a term from popular culture that relates to the point in time when advanced computing, networking, robotic and biotech becomes smarter then humans and what the implications are for humanity. Most off the mark was that that I think that humans will continue to be on top of the food chain and that human emotions though they can be imitated by synthetic creatures they are not human. Intimacy, love and emotion are still only human traits.

Randall, if you had to put a timeframe on when surrogate robots, like those in the movie, would be an affordable option for Joe Citizen, what year would you guess it might be?

Randall Alley: This is going to be one of those answers that have three possibilities: 1) it never comes to pass and therefore my prediction disappears into the shadows of history; 2) I am so far off and have made such a great name for myself and my company that somebody bothers to dig up this answer and parades it around for all the world to be amused and 3) I am close enough to look like a sage and the world comes knocking at my door. I’m sure there are other possibilities but you get the point. It’s a long way of saying I’m about to give you a wild guess. I am going to offer up the year 2025, as there are surely higher priorities than surrogate creation on the to-do list of most scientists. Then to bring this tech down to the affordable level, well, that’s the tough part.

Randall, do you think life-like surrogate robots would quickly lead to a promiscuous society where fantasies are lived out rather than productivity increases recognized?

Randall Alley: Yes and no. Without a doubt such fantasies would be lived out. You see this with people chatting on the net pretending to be somebody else, safe in the knowledge, or at least the belief, that no one will discover their real identity. However, I also believe productivity increases would also occur. As a species, not so much as an individual, we can’t stop improving, growing, experimenting, learning. So where someone might simply choose to live out a fantasy day after day, there will be those individuals who recognize that why all these “sloths” are tied to the machine, there’s huge opportunity to seize the moment and move onward and upward. As has always been the case throughout the history of man is that giant leaps of progress are typically the result of a very small number of very bright, or very determined individuals.

James, same question for you, do you think life-like surrogate robots would quickly lead to a promiscuous society where fantasies are lived out rather than productivity increases recognized?

Dr. James Canton: I think that surrogate robots will provide more lifestyle choices that will enable people to live out their fantasies, both good, bad and yes ugly. But this is no different then today. Human society even without the Surrogates spends a larger portion of time engaging in behaviors that are promiscuous. Will the Surrogates tech accelerate people having more of these experiences, perhaps. But it is certain that less social repression, especially associated with sexual behavior, leads to less violence against women. Countries that have more liberal laws have less violent crimes, so if we allow safe alternative experiences that are safe and accepted, it is likely we will gain a social good from this. This does not mean to say that productivity must be thrown out for other promiscuous behaviors, but this is human nature not technology’s issue. The Surrogates movie does show how a technology as powerful as the Surrogates can change society. It is up to us to make sure that we steer this technology of the surrogates to be used for good and in the public interest as opposed to being used to manipulate human beings or used by governments or criminals to control thought, desire or human experience. For more information see my website at www.GlobalFuturist.com and www.SingularityU.com for an exploration of these ideas.

Randall, what was your greatest success story at biodesigns in helping an amputee with technology?

Randall Alley: Probably the most memorable happened quite a long time ago. I worked with a middle-aged woman with quadrimelia (born without arms or legs) at very high levels, so she was at the hip level as well as the shoulder level on both sides. Adding to her challenges, she also had severe scoliosis, so her upper back was significantly rotated off of center. Her parents took care of her every minute of their lives and had been doing so for more than forty years. Just sit back and imagine that. Eating, toileting, dressing, everything. When I met her, all she wanted was to be able to feed herself. The technology at the time was too heavy or simply incapable of providing the function she needed so I, along with an engineer designed a system that brought components together from different manufacturers that weren’t meant to work with one another. The system not only weighed far less than anything out there at the time, but was also simple to use and reliable. She ate her first cookie right in front of me and her family wept. I won’t ever forget that.

Randall, do you agree or disagree that the human identity is bound to the body?

Randall Alley: I think for now, and for most, yes, it is very much bound to the body. However, many amputees for example have adjusted to their missing limbs and the prosthetic technologies that attempt to replace them become a part of their identity. They recognize that despite their “artificiality” they are an extension of themselves.  Taking that further you then get into remote control of objects that we as a human race will begin to identify with and give personalities to until finally, as in the Surrogates, though the characters understand they are real human beings, they begin to identify more closely with their counterparts.

Dr. Canton, where in the world are they developing real surrogate like technology, does anyone country or scientist stand out as the leading edge in android / surrogate / human like robots?

Dr. James Canton: There are some secret labs working in Asia–China and Japan, on surrogate like tech I have seen in my travels. They are working on attractive female and male surrogate-like robots, some are quite attractive. Consider de-population a vexing problem of the near future.   You can search for Hugo DeGaris and Rodney Brooks for more info on state of the art in robotics and my website www.FutureGuru.com

Not enough people to work, marry or live in a nation or region could be offset by robotics. Even with bringing health care to the millions who cannot get it, tele-robotics, human doctors operating these surrogates to provide health care will happen.

Dr. Canton, the director of the film Jonathan Mostow said he purposely set the film in the near future rather than 2050 with flying cars.   So in reality, which will come first, the flying cars or the surrogates and why do you think so?

Dr. James Canton: Flying cars are not an accurate marker for the future.  This is why. We have flying cars today, we just call them planes, extra-light planes, really hang gliders with engines have been around for some time. The proliferation of masses of flying cars is not a tech invention problem but a logistics and safety problem we cannot control. Now the world of the surrogates will come first but have many more social and legal challenges then flying cars.  See Singularity University where there is more info on advanced social and tech issues related to this issue.

Dr. Canton, what is the most fantastic future tech you have ever seen in person?  What blew your mind when you saw it?

Dr. James Canton: The most fantastic future tech I have seen in person was a Artificial Life form called Fin Fin that was created from a computer program that imitated evolutionary human processes. It was a cross between a bird and a dolphin. This was developed by Fujitsu some years ago. Recently Honda’s free walking and instrument playing robots that I visited were mind blowing. The idea of a robot being able to play an instrument. Also, I viewed a robotic woman who was quite beautiful in a lab in China. What was fantastic was how she tracked me with her eyes and her skin was very life like. Finally the 200 petabyte supercomputer at Tata in India was mind blowing as it showed me that artificial intelligence must be used to think through the big challenges that we face today.

Dr. Canton: Could the situations evoked in the film one day become real?

Dr. James Canton: Yes, the situations, even the drama between lifestyles of human and robotic could become real. We are closer to the world of the Surrogates then people realize. My book published in 2007 The Extreme Future forecasted this reality. The movie is a bit ahead of today, but this cybernetic future is coming.

Randall, could the situations evoked in the film one day become real?

Randall Alley: They most certainly could, but to what degree is the real question. It is occurring and will occur in stages and in different areas of research and development. Artificial limbs, skin substitutes, controllers will all be developed at different rates and with different goals in mind. It will be those who assimilate these technologies into a single package that will create the first “surrogates” that approach what you see in the film.

Pick up Surrogates today on DVD and Blu-Ray